Welcome to a special conversation, a special episode of the Breakpoint podcast.

I think it was about 13 or 14 years ago.

I was walking out of a conference that I had just spoken at at Ridgecrest Conference Center in North Carolina.

The conference was the Christian Medical and Dental Association and met someone who I'd heard of.

I'd heard of because he was facing a legal challenge to say the least,

Dr. Alan Josephson.

That's probably funny to hear it describe like that.

On this side it's funny and it's great on this side of it's funny and it's great, on this side of it.

It wasn't so funny on the other side of it.

I mean, in a sense, and I want you to tell the whole story,

but your situation was one of the earliest challenges

or collisions between conscience and conscience rights and this transgender movement that was

really in its infancy.

I didn't realize it at the time, but yes, it was.

Absolutely.

It was really.

Let's go back and talk about the story.

You're a professor at the time at the University of Louisville, what happens?

Right.

Well, I spoke with Dave Steven several times on CMDA Matters, a podcast.

And once you're on a podcast, once you're out there, people had heard about it, and several

physicians had heard about it, heard me, wanted me to come join them at the behest of Ryan Anderson

...