Welcome to Crime Conversations, the True Crime Podcast brought to you by CrimeCon UK,

the Ultimate True Crime Weekend.

In the lead up to CrimeCon in London on September 25th and 26th, each week we're bringing two

of our favourite podcasts together to find out more about their fascination with True Crime.

Each conversation will explore subjects including how they got involved in True Crime,

the cases that have stuck in their mind, the process behind their podcast,

and what they think makes a great True Crime show.

We'd also like to say a big thank you to all those True Crime fans who sent questions to ask our guests.

To find out who we'll be featuring on the podcast across the season

and for more information on our London event, check CrimeCon.co.uk

or visit our Instagram page at CrimeConUnderscoreUK.

Hi, I'm Shanage, host of the Men's Raya Podcast.

It's an Irish True Crime Podcast set in the courtroom.

Hi, I'm Esther, host of Once Upon a Crime.

I'd like to say that Once Upon a Crime tells the story behind the story of real life crime.

While researching each case, I worked on cover details to tell a compelling story

and also to provide context to understand why these crimes happened.

So, Shanage, I was really interested when I found out about your podcast

because I think we have some similarities as far as the kinds of podcasts that we host,

which are basically telling a story from beginning to end

and it's a narrated one-host podcast.

So, my question to you was, when did you first realize you had an interest in True Crime

...