Bobbleheads on Spikes: The (Selfish) Case for Rules, with David Epstein
Pablo Torre Finds Out
Pablo Torre
4.7 • 2.6K Ratings
🗓️ 10 April 2026
⏱️ 40 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Whether it's A.I. companies pirating millions of books or NBA owners violating the salary cap, the most powerful entities in America are trying to circumvent laws created to restrain them. Bestselling author and investigative journalist David Epstein (no relation!) makes the case for why rules are not obstacles to progress, but the opposite: the very things that make a society — and a market — free.
• Pre-order David Epstein's new book, Inside the Box: How Constraints Make Us Better
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is. |
| 0:06.5 | I think this is a moment where we need some like public corruption heads on spikes. |
| 0:12.0 | Right after this ad. |
| 0:19.8 | I do just want to explain for people who haven't seen your previous appearances on this show. |
| 0:23.7 | Sure. |
| 0:24.0 | That we've known each other for a very long time. |
| 0:25.6 | We're friends. |
| 0:26.2 | We're colleagues. |
| 0:27.0 | Dating back to Sports Illustrated. |
| 0:28.2 | And also, you are not related to Jeffrey Epstein. |
| 0:30.5 | I'm not related to Jeffrey Epstein, but it did cross my mind that I should name, like, my YouTube channel channel the Epstein files or something if I just |
| 0:40.5 | want to do maximum. I haven't been able to bring myself to do such a thing. You're leaving |
| 0:45.5 | SEO optimization on the table. I know. I even filtered my own last name so that people can't |
| 0:50.3 | use it in the comments, but they find they're very clever. It's a creative |
| 0:54.3 | constraint. They find clever ways to get around that. What is it like being David Epstein these days? Author of, by the way, Inside the Box, How Constraints Make Us Better, a book that I really enjoyed reading and listening to over the weekend. If you're still asking about the Epstein last name, it's like the Jewish Smith. I mean, it's a pretty common last name, which is a saving grace, I have to say. |
| 1:11.2 | Like, I was alphabetized for exams in freshman physics and college, and I was next to another David Epstein, you know? |
| 1:18.6 | Like, fortunately, there's a lot of us out there that doesn't make it great when I walk my son to school and we go past people holding signs that just say Epstein. |
| 1:28.2 | I'm like they're not rooting for us, bud. |
| 1:30.1 | But the idea that you had to filter out your own name from your own comment section, |
| 1:34.5 | because you know what people are going to say despite the fact that this is your third book |
| 1:38.6 | and your sort of uvra here is established. |
| 1:41.1 | You are not the notorious sex trafficker and pedophile. You are, in fact, |
... |
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