it's been a few years as we talked about you've been on the podcast which by the way was a hugely

educational conversation as as i recall it so i highly recommend anyone listening to us today

to go back and replay these episodes which are the t t t u series episode 89 and 90.

But what is also interesting is that when we had our conversation,

one of the things we talked about was your first book, Systematic Trading.

And I even, I think, got you to read a part of the beginning

because it all kind of takes a

beginning in terms of you describing what took place back in early 2009 at the height of the

financial crisis. And it clearly illustrated, you know, the difficult, stressful periods

in the markets and how difficult it was for you to make good decisions

And I think last week or the last couple of weeks is is easily at the same scale in terms of uncertainty in the market

So I would love to just for you to start out by telling a little bit about

You know going back to 2009

and the challenges you faced back then and how that contrast to the past week or two

in terms of how you've dealt with it and dealt with the volatility, you know, from that point

of view.

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because a lot of people have been making comparisons between now and 2008, which, you know, is obvious because it's the last crisis that most of us can remember. But this is quite a different crisis. So in the kind of fancy language of economists, I think you could describe 2008 as an

endogenous crisis. So the kind of stress came from within the system. The kind of financial

system became over leveraged. And ultimately that was always going to lead to its downfall.

And the actual way that things played out in the markets happened relatively slowly. I mean,

we had the first kind of stress of the, you know, the hedge funds linked to Bursterns in

February 2007. And that was probably the first kind of indication that things were starting to

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