Welcome to the Colette Podcast. My name is Claire Lehman and I am editor and chief of Colette.

Colette is where Free Thought lives. We are an independent grassroots platform for heterodox ideas and fearless commentary.

Our podcast is a team effort and is jointly hosted by myself,

associate editor Toby Young and Canadian editor Jonathan Kay.

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Hello and welcome to the Quillat podcast.

My name's Toby Young and I'm an associate editor.

I recently spoke with Bo Winggard, an assistant professor of psychology at Marietta College in Ohio.

He's also a frequent contributor to Quillett.

We talked about three of his pieces, on the reality of race and the abhorrence of racism, the preachers of the Great

awakening and Centrism a moderate manifesto, some of which he co-wrote with Brian Boutwell

and his brother Ben. We were speaking via Skype so apologies in advance for

occasional lapses in sound quality.

So okay let's let now let's talk about that article on the reality of race and the

abhorrence of racism and that that was by you and Brian and your brother Ben.

As I recall, I mean the main point is just,

you know, the arguments that race is a social construction

are rather weak and in fact race reflects an

underlying biological reality but importantly one doesn't have to deny the reality of race to espouse an anti-racist message and

I and actually we even argued that it's dangerous to tie, I guess, a cosmopolitan message to an empirical

...