Hello and welcome to Speaking with Joy, a podcast about books, beauty, and music.

So make yourself a cup of tea, sit down, and let's begin.

Thank you. down and let's begin. Hi everybody and welcome back to speaking with joy.

Today I have the great pleasure of having my friend Glenn Packyam on the show with me today.

Woo-hoo! Hello, Joy. Welcome to the show, Glenn. So what would be our history? How could we give people a context for how we know each other?

I mean, our families have known each other for like a lot of years, 15, maybe 20, almost 20, I don't know.

A long time. So that means you were like six. Yeah, I was saying, no little bit more than that. Well, we'll put it this way.

When I, when we first met, I would not have called you Glenn.

I probably would have called you, Mr. Glenn.

What was the joy?

I'm not that old now.

No, but we met many years ago.

Church.

Church and back when Joel was in school of worship.

Yeah, we used to run this thing that trained worship leaders and your brother, Joel, he was there.

What was that?

0-2-03, something like that.

Something like that, I know.

Who would have known he turned into a coral?

What a legend!

That guy!

And it's been so fun because I feel like though our paths of divergent moments, we've kind of stayed neck

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