So Garagos, I haven't heard your take on the Nancy Guthrie case.

What is it?

Not that different from my friend and partner, Matt Murphy.

This sheriff, I think, all roads lead to this sheriff.

And I think that, you know, it's not a surprise that I have some

criticism of law enforcement. But in this particular case, this may be kind of a blueprint

for how you don't investigate a case, how you don't handle the messaging around a case. And

it's a tragedy anyway. Everybody has their heart goes out to it but

this sheriff has just been atrocious in my opinion do you have any theory gyrgos just given your

lifetime in you know criminal defense work on whether this was a likely kidnapping a likely murder

you know and then removal of the body.

I always thought that the focus on the family first, which I understand and I get, but I thought

that being a bi-coastal elite and living between L.A. and New York, I missed what people were saying initially who were on the ground there,

that, look, this is, you're very close to the border, these things happen. I think there was another,

I will call it similar case, but something that had kind of the earmarks of an abduction,

and that it probably was a stranger abduction for money at a certain point.

And it spiraled out of control because of the supersizing of the case itself.

Interesting.

Okay. So Matt Murphy, you have been covering this from the beginning.

And yesterday here on our show, we dropped a bit of a bombshell ourselves

where we found video of Nancy Guthrie's bedroom, which aired on the Today Show in 2013.

I mean, we were stunned to see it ourselves. We're putting together this Nancy Guthrie

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