Bits + Bips: Where Is the Most Wealth to Be Made in Crypto: DeFi or CeFi? - Ep. 913

Unchained

Laura Shin

Tech News, Business News, News

4.6 • 1.3K Ratings

🗓️ 1 October 2025

⏱️ 65 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Crypto’s bull run may be far from over, but the battleground is shifting. On this week’s Bits + Bips, Bill Barhydt of Abra and Robert Leshner of Superstate join Ram Ahluwalia and Steven Ehrlich to debate: The current state of the markets with a looming government shutdown SWIFT’s move to build on Linea, an Ethereum layer 2 Hyperliquid vs Aster The future of perps vs. spot Why some DATs are starting to look like grifts Whether DeFi billionaires will ultimately eclipse their CeFi predecessors Plus: Binance’s and Tether’s valuation, CZ as the entrepreneur of the decade, and why the industry may be entering an era of “perpification.” Thank you to Xapo for sponsoring this episode! Hosts: Ram Ahluwalia, CFA, CEO and Founder of Lumida Steven Ehrlich, Executive Editor at Unchained Guests: Bill Barhydt, Founder and CEO of Abra Robert Leshner, Co-founder & CEO of Superstate Links: Steve’s story on the DAT that claimed it raised much more than it actually did Subscribe to Bits + Bips newsletter here Timestamps: 🎬0:00 Intro 📈 3:26 Why Bill believes the bull run is far from over 🧐 5:10 Why Ram is pushing back on market FUD 🏛️ 9:10 Will a government shutdown impact markets? 🌐 12:48 Why SWIFT building on Ethereum’s Linea layer 2 is such a big deal 🏦 22:15 Whether it even matters if banks embrace crypto ⚠️ 27:50 How one DAT may have been the “ultimate grift” ⚔️ 35:58 Inside the DEX perps wars: Hyperliquid vs Aster 👑 40:32 How valuable Binance and CZ really are to the industry 🚀 50:39 What advantages make Hyperliquid stand out in the perp battle 🤔 53:14 Why picking winners in trading isn’t so simple 🔄 57:29 Winners in stablecoin race plus why perps are better than spot Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	The bull run is not even close to having played itself out because it relates certainly
0:05.1	to crypto.
0:06.1	Who are you fooling when your debt is for a blockchain that doesn't exist?
0:10.4	The D5 billionaires haven't come yet.
0:12.7	And I think they're going to be bigger.
0:14.0	I think we've now entered perpification.
0:16.3	I think it's a superior form factor for most users.
0:19.1	And I think that spot markets are going to slowly die out
0:23.0	relative to terms. Welcome to Bits and Bips, the show where we explore how crypto and macro collide
0:30.7	one basis point at a time. We have a lot to discuss today. Hopes for a renewed October.
0:42.4	A new competitor to Hyperliquid that's getting a lot of attention.
0:50.5	Swift getting in on the crypto game, perhaps I would say about 10 years since they first started kicking tires on it and much, much more.
0:53.5	But first, just a couple of quick introductions. I'm your host, Steve Erlick,
0:56.1	high scribe of the Unchained Kingdom. And I'm here with one of our special guests today. We are
1:01.6	going to have more. But first, we have Bill Barthard, the keeper of Abra's Onchane Oates.
1:07.8	So Bill, thanks for joining us. It's great to have you.
1:12.1	That's good to see you. Thanks for having me. One early bitcoiner sold 30,000 BTC too soon, missing out on over a billion dollars.
1:19.1	Don't want to make the same mistake. With Zapo Bank, eligible members can get instant cash without
1:24.1	selling their Bitcoin. Check out Zappobank.com slash Unchained for more.
1:29.4	Yeah, great to have you. I've been following your work for a long time. Actually, since Abra.
1:34.1	I mean, you've been in Aubra for a really long time. I'm not sure if we've ever met,
1:38.1	but I do recall that we've spoken at several American banker conferences way back in like
	...

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