Welcome to the big interview bite size. I'm Graham Hunter and in each episode you'll

hear an elite football or tell a story that's guaranteed to brighten your day.

All of them come from my podcast, The Big Interview with Graham Hunter, which you can find by

searching on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Thanks to Big Johnny Hartson, Wales and Celtic striking legend

who speaks to us about Roberto Ayala,

the rock-hard Argentinian defender who actually dominated him physically despite bearing the nickname the mouse. Of all the central defenders that were beaten by you, bullied by you, outthought by you,

outjunk by you, tricked by you, outthought by you, out-bunted by you,

tricked by you.

You've said in the past that it was a wee guy with lanky long hair

who was at least one of your toughest central defence opponents and that was Roberto Ayala.

Er Raton, he was called the mouse. Can you believe he was called the mouse?

John, that was Celtic against Valencia in the year before your run to a third European final in your part.

Please, for those who don't understand Ayala or the art of a center forward against a

central defender, why did you name Ayala as your chute used opponent?

Describe him on the situation will you? Well first of all that

was against Rafa Benitez's Valencia in the Champions League, the group stages, this was the game.

Can't recall what you...

It's December 2001, and as you say, it's a home and away tie in the group stage and I mean look just for just

just everybody else just there was no text of memory for you. Valencia

line up with canesaris Pelagrino,, Fabiole, the man, Roberto Iala,

Miris Abjukic, the sweeper, Amadeo-Cargoni, brutal hard Italian full back,

...