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Good morning and welcome to the Bullwork Podcast.

I am Trellis likes it is February 22, 2023.

And I am joined by my fellow cheesehead Bill leaders,

a writer based in Madison, Wisconsin, former editor,

now editor at large of the Progressive magazine,

and now a contributor to the Bullwork.

Bill, good to talk with you again.

Good to be here.

Now I was going to say something like,

like, who would ever think that Charlie Sykes and Bill leaders would be working together?

But the fact is, you and I have actually been working together.

You just reminded me, for 39 years.

That's true.

Okay, I'm sorry. I feel old.

There's 1984 when I started doing some editing and then writing for Milwaukee Magazine

...