From Wired, this is the big interview. I'm Katie Drummond.

At the end of October, I read an op-ed in the New York Times. Maybe some of you read it too.

It was called, I-led product safety at OpenAI. Don't trust its claims about erotica.

The op-ed was written by an AI product manager named Stephen Adler, who worked at Open

AI for four years before leaving at the end of 2024.

Adler felt like he had something to say, or maybe more like a need to sound the alarm.

After reading Adler's op-ed, I immediately thought I'd like to talk to him, so he graciously

accepted our offer to come into the Wired Off offices in San Francisco to talk to me about the challenge he set for OpenAI and other AI companies. If you care about safety, prove it. Here's our conversation.

Stephen Adler, welcome to the big interview.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

Of course, happy you're here.

Now, before we get going, I do want to clarify two things.

One, you are not the same Stephen Adler who played drums and guns and roses, unfortunately.

Is that correct?

Absolutely correct.

Okay, that is not you.

And two, you have had a very long career working in technology and more specifically in artificial intelligence.

So I would love, before we get into all of the things, to start there.

Tell us a little bit about your career and your background and sort of what you've worked on.

I've worked all across the AI industry and in

particular focused on safety angles. Most recently, I worked for four years at OpenAI. I worked

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