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Liberated and taken into Cuba, she needs a presidential pardon as well. So there are

other people who need pardons as well as commutations. You know, Rebecca, I think it's really

interesting in that because so many of these people actually were able to prove themselves during

COVID, they got out of jail and they worked themselves back into the community and their families.

COVID actually proved to be a good

thing, a program almost, to show what people could do if they were let out and then we're successful in doing so.

Well, here's the thing. One thing that we understand about the criminal legal system in this country is that

is ineffective. So having people, especially

non-violent offenders in prison for decades and decades, simply doesn't seek the final aims of justice.

It's not just we know that locking people up doesn't actually rehabilitate either. And it isn't

always the disincentive for potential reoccurring offenders. And so, I mean,

that's just the first thing here. But of course, President Biden has many other people that he should be

pardoning. One thing that I would say, and regardless of president, is that we do need to have a better

system when it comes to presidential pardons instead of it being

...