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The Ezra Klein Show

Beyond the ‘Matrix’ Theory of the Mind

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.611K Ratings

🗓️ 4 June 2023

⏱️ 18 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Some thoughts on how humans think, how economies grow and why the technologies we think will help so often hurt. Column: “Beyond the ‘Matrix’ Theory of the Mind” by Ezra Klein Episode Recommendations: Maryanne Wolf on how reading shapes our brains Cal Newport on the problems with the way we work My A.M.A. on A.I. Gary Marcus on the limits of A.I. Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. “The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Emefa Agawu, Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld, Roge Karma and Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Rollin Hu. Mixing by Sonia Herrero. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

Transcript

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0:00.0

So this episode is a column read, not a conversation.

0:10.0

But one reason I wanted to talk about this column is that it's a bit of a culmination

0:15.5

of things I've explored on the show through a bunch of conversations.

0:18.4

So the Marian Wolf conversation about the way different kinds of reading act on the mind,

0:24.6

I'll nu-port on the ways in which we have built digital work environments that distract

0:30.0

people more than it focuses them.

0:32.5

And then obviously a lot of the AI work we've been doing, where I think if you know,

0:38.1

if you've been listening, that I am pretty convinced, the technology is transformative

0:43.8

and can insinuate in all dimensions of our lives and could be very, very powerful.

0:49.2

And also what business models it ends up attached to, the actual way we design the environments

0:54.0

and ways human beings interact with it is really going to matter.

0:57.6

So it gives me a chance to revisit something that I've thought a lot about with the internet

1:01.5

itself, which is where this one begins.

1:11.4

So imagine I told you in 1970 that I was going to invent this wondrous tool and this new

1:17.1

tool make it possible for anyone with access and most of humanity would amazingly have access

1:23.3

to quickly communicate and collaborate with anyone else.

1:26.0

So it would store nearly the entire sum of human knowledge and thought up to that point.

1:31.4

And all of it, all of it would be searchable and sortable and portable.

1:36.8

Text could be instantly translated from one language to another.

1:40.4

News would be immediately available from all over the world.

1:43.7

And it would take no longer for scientists to download a journal paper from 15 years

1:47.6

ago, then to flip to an entry in the latest issue.

...

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