Last week, you heard the defense's case, and although compelling, it wasn't enough to convince

12 jurors to find Richard Allen not guilty. Today, we're going outside the jury box to

unpack some of the things that the jurors didn't get to hear in the courtroom, like discrepancies

in the sketches, pagan discrepancies in the sketches,

pagan rituals, and suspicious individuals connected to the girls.

The prosecution says it's justice served.

The defense says it's at the expense of an innocent man, but it's the jurors who have the

final say.

This is the 13th juror podcast where we break down real court cases and put you in the jurors

seat. Two sides, the same evidence. You decide what to believe. I'm your host, Brandy

Churchwell. Today's episode is Indiana versus Richard Allen, part three, Beyond the Jury Box. The Joining us in the conversation today is criminal defense attorney and host of the podcast

Buried inside the John Wayne Gacy investigation, Bob Mata.

Bob is no stranger to true crime. In fact, it's practically

in his DNA. His father, also a defense attorney, represented serial killer John Wayne Gasey at trial.

Bob's upbringing eventually inspired him to follow in his father's footsteps and become a lawyer

himself. He has practiced for over two decades. In 2022,

Bob began following the Delphi case closely and was actually inside the courtroom every day during

trial. So let's dive in and see what he has to say. Welcome Bob. Hey, Brandy. Hi. It's awesome to see you.

It's awesome to see you. I'm so glad to have you here. Me too. Me too. I knew that when we started talking about this case, I knew that I wanted to talk to you because there are few people in the world who know as much about this case as you do. So I appreciate you coming in and hanging out with me for a little bit because I have a lot of questions for you. My pleasure. My pleasure.

Okay. So first of all, tell our listeners how you got involved in this case.

So initially when the homicides happened in 2017, we live in the Chicago land area. So we're about two, two and a half hours away from Delphi. So we were getting some coverage over in Illinois about the case and obviously

two little beautiful girls had been killed. So it was one of those cases which quickly kind of caught

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