Thanks for listening to Reasonable Doubt on Podcast One.

This is Beyond A Reasonable Doubt with your hosts, Mark Garagas and Gary Smith.

I'm going to be a guest to B.R.D. by the way, a lot of people have asked why am I always smiling like a cat who waited canary and it's because I get to see Gary and I hear awesome Dawson's voice and we get to do the best 15 minutes in the universe.

Absolutely. Gary, here we go.

What topic would you like to start with today, Gary? Because there are as I often call it an embarrassment of riches.

I could not agree more. I think what I'd like to start with is I'd like to harken back to an episode of Beyond A Reasonable Doubt Show from August.

And there was some stuff going on with the governor of New York and you said, you know, I know someone and I'd like to have them on the show. You want to set it up beyond that?

Yeah, let me tell you this. So when all heck was breaking loose with Andrew Cuomo, who was the then governor, there was a report that was released by Tish James, my buddy, the attorney general there in New York.

And Tish apparently took the governor by surprise if you believe the reporting because he couldn't believe he was quoted as saying internally, I can't believe Tish did be like this or something to that effect.

So I said Gary in one of our, I don't know the people understand how much you and I text during the day.

My wife is jealous. So last night you and I were texting it about 10 30 at night. I was texting you pictures of my kid and she's like, what are you texting this hour?

One picture of you holding the prince is something you should show that before we end.

So I said, what about bringing on Karen Agniflo, who's been with the firm in New York and was the former number two in the Manhattan DA's office. I can't think of any and she was, I think she's been in the sex crimes unit. She's been in this unit that you know, I thought nobody better.

So we asked her about the report, which did not deal with any potential criminal liability by Andrew Cuomo. It was pretty much was a single investigation.

Yeah, exactly. A civil investigation and rightfully so I think under the New York law and what the attorney general is deemed to be able to investigate.

Today to Gary with the news that the breaking news we're going to talk about. Let's go back and harken back to what Karen's yeah, you know, we're fond of predictions here at reasonable doubt. So let's look, you know, two and a half months ago.

Part of our will call our segment crystal grades. Yeah, yeah, two and a half months ago. Let's see what we thought.

So the reports stayed away from determining whether or not anything was actually criminal and really what they did was they talked about it from more of a civil perspective and the civil perspective is the is what we commonly call sexual harassment in New York.

Human rights law and federally it's title seven and it's it's sort of a civil standard. It's different than a criminal standard, which is beyond a reasonable doubt, which is kind of what the standard proof is in a criminal case.

It's civil. It's it's the preponderance of the evidence and and so this the report was very much a civil report kind of spelling out what they found and what they saw. But when you read the facts, if you're somebody who has experience reading the facts and making determinations about whether the facts make out of crime, that's where you start to have people

through people, people, people, up high in whether or not some of this is criminal or could rise to the level of criminal and there's a few factors that that you have to think about.

And I read the details and read the red the facts here.

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