Bethel Church and the New Apostolic Reformation: Holly Pivec and Doug Geivett on Two Decades of Tracking the NAR’s Apostles and Prophets

Cults, Culture & Coercion with Dr. Steve Hassan

Dr. Steven Hassan

Society & Culture, Education, Self-improvement

4.7 • 843 Ratings

🗓️ 9 March 2026

⏱️ 71 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Holly Pivec and Doug Geivett on Two Decades of Tracking the NAR’s Apostles and Prophets You walk into a church on Sunday morning. The worship band plays songs you’ve heard on Christian radio for years. The lyrics feel familiar, uplifting. What you don’t realize is that the words you’re singing were written to export a specific theology from a single church in Redding, California, one whose leadership claims direct prophetic authority from God. The church is Bethel. The movement behind it is the New Apostolic Reformation. And according to researchers Holly Pivec and Doug Geivett, who have spent over two decades studying this movement from inside Christian scholarship, it represents a radical departure from historic Christianity that is reshaping churches, politics, and millions of lives worldwide. I sat down with Holly and Doug on a recent episode of Cults, Culture & Coercion to discuss their latest book, Reckless Christianity: The Destructive New Teachings and Practices of Bill Johnson, Bethel Church, and the Global Movement of Apostles and Prophets. I’ve written about the New Apostolic Reformation in The Cult of Trump and interviewed researchers like André Gagné and Frederick Clarkson on these topics. Holly and Doug bring an essential angle: they are committed Christians sounding the alarm from within the faith, grounded in biblical scholarship and philosophy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Welcome back to cults, culture, and coercion,
0:05.0	where we dig into the belief system,
0:08.0	shaping our world and expose the cult dynamics hidden beneath the surface.
0:13.0	I'm your host, Dr. Stephen Hassan.
0:16.0	Before we get started, please subscribe, like the video, share it.
0:21.0	Your support really helps our work reach more people.
0:25.3	I'm very excited.
0:26.7	Today I'm joined by two of the leading voices analyzing one of the most controversial movements
0:32.2	in modern Christianity.
0:34.7	Holly P. Vic, author and longtime researcher of the New Apostolic Reformation, and Doug Geivet,
0:43.7	philosophy professor and co-author with Holly of several biblical critiques of the movement.
0:49.8	They've written four books together, including counterfeit kingdom, the dangers of new revelation,
0:56.2	prophets, and the new age practices in the church, and their most recent book, Reckless Christianity,
1:03.8	the destructive new teachings and practices of Bill Johnson, Bethel Church, and the global
1:09.9	movement of apostles and prophets.
1:13.0	Together, they've spent over two decades tracking how the NAR's networks of apostles and prophets
1:20.5	reshapes American Christianity, authority, and influence in ways that are dividing churches
1:27.4	and, frankly, confusing believers worldwide.
1:31.7	Holly and Doug, welcome to the show. And please tell us more about your new book, Reckless Christianity.
1:38.8	Well, thanks. Thanks so much for having us on. We really appreciate this opportunity.
1:45.0	And, you know, our new book, Reckless Christianity, our most recent book really is a deep dive into the teachings of Bethel Church, which is the most prominent church in the new Apostolic Reformation movement today globally.
1:59.0	And it is led by Bill Johnson, the senior pastor, who's also
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