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And now, from the University of Chicago Institute of Politics and CNN Audio, the Axfiles, with

your host, David Axelrod.

As I promised, I want to reach back into the vault of Axfiles conversations to provide

maybe a little bit of relief from the steady drum beat of coronavirus news.

We can't get away from it as this story touches all of our lives.

This one, I think, is particularly relevant.

A conversation I had in 2016 with Doris Kern's Goodwin, one of the leading historians

of our time, presidential biographer, great story of her own, with almost ebillion people,

I know.

And a lot of this conversation centered on the subject of leadership and crisis and what

she learned from studying great presidents like Johnson and Kennedy and both Roosevelt's

in this conversation, Doris talks about her own very, very compelling personal journey.

She also talks about her husband, Richard Goodwin, who was a great writer in his own right

and an important historical figure in the late 20th century.

He's passed away since this conversation, but his memory lives and it lives in this conversation.

I hope you enjoy it.

Doris Kern's Goodwin, you are a master storyteller, but one of my favorite of your works and

I love them all was your own autobiography wait till next year.

And you talked about growing up in Brooklyn as a baseball fan and how did your life growing

up turn you into the storyteller that you are?

Well, you know, when you think about baseball, it is about telling stories because it's

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