Ted Audio Collective.

There is new technology that allows you to actually watch in real time where your animal

slash wife or husband is right on your iPhone.

But at the time this was way back in 2009 and he had to come back and we downloaded it.

And instead of that one true line, we saw instead this wild, wild scribble all over

our neighborhood in a 10-hour period it became clear that Tibi did not sleep.

He ran around on meth and phedomines.

From the Ted Audio Collective this is Design Matters with Debbie Millman.

For 17 years Debbie Millman has been talking with some of the world's most creative people

about what they do, how they got to be who they are, and what they're thinking about

and working on.

And now some of those interviews appear in print in Debbie's brand new book, Why Design Matters,

Conversations with the world's most creative people.

It's coming out in February of 2022.

In anticipation of the book, every Thursday we're going to be releasing an interview from

the archives in addition to our new episodes that come out on Mondays.

We thought it would be fun for listeners to hear not only some great interviews, but

also to hear how the podcast has evolved over the years.

In May of 2013 Debbie talked with illustrator Wendy McNaughton and author Caroline Paul

about writing a book together.

When Caroline and I first started this we quickly realized that this is not the typical writer-illustrator

relationship.

...