To see your team achieve more than they thought they were capable of, that they will advance

the organization further than you even imagine because they believe and they're grateful

and they're inspired, it's all worth all the sacrifices it always is.

From a TED audio collective, this is Design Matters with Debbie Milman.

For 17 years, Debbie Milman has been talking with some of the world's most creative people

about what they do, how they got to be who they are, and what they're thinking about and

working on.

And now, some of those interviews appear in print in Debbie's brand new book, Why Design

Matters.

Conversations with the world's most creative people.

It's coming out in February of 2022.

In anticipation of the book, every Thursday we're going to be releasing an interview from

the archives in addition to our new episodes that come out on Mondays.

We thought it would be fun for listeners to hear not only some great interviews, but also

to hear how the podcast has evolved over the years.

We're now up to 2015.

In November of that year, Debbie spoke with the ethnographer and author Simon Sinak about

leadership.

Leaders set the environment and people respond to the environment they're in.

Fact.

And that's why leaders matter because somebody has to create the environment.

Simon Sinak, after the break.

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