The New Season of Design Matters with Debbie Milman starts in April.

The episode you're about to listen to originally dropped in May of 2021.

So it's always been rooted and grounded in nostalgia, memory.

I think that's a really critical part, that memory piece, especially when you're asking

questions like, is there racism in heaven or what's my role in racism?

From the TED Audio Collective, this is Design Matters with Debbie Milman.

For 17 years, Debbie Milman has been talking with designers and other creative people

about what they do, how they got to be who they are, and what they're thinking about

and working on. On this episode, artists and designers Nick Cave and Bob Files

talk about their partnership and about how they met at a sample sale.

And then you start to look at the prices and you're like, he's trying to make rent,

and these things are expensive.

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...