They did it again. Flower, instead of flowers, on my birthday. And 95 minutes late, but it's hard to leave when you've shared so much. Your postcode, your gluten intolerance. Then I saw it. 25% off your first Akado shop, plus free delivery. And I just knew I'd found the online supermarket of my dreams.

Akado, life delivered. Geographical restrictions, mined spend 60 pounds, and charges apply.

Max saving 20 pounds, new customers only, terms at Akado.com.

This archival episode of Design Matters originally dropped in November of 2022.

For a young girl, when they're Googling something like Matisse, my name comes up.

Like for me, to assert myself within that Western canon is to really try to dismantle and deconstruct the notions that persist.

From the TED Audio Collective, this is Design Matters with Debbie Millman.

For 18 years, Debbie Millman has been talking with designers and other creative people about what they do,

how they got to be who they are, and what they're thinking about and working on.

On this episode, Mickeleen Thomas talks about how black women are depicted in her art

and about her burgeoning career.

I want to be in my 80s and my 90s still making art.

I'm in this for the long way.

Black women are front and center in the work of McLean Thomas.

They are lying on couches, sitting on chairs, sometimes nude,

other times clothed in brilliant patterns or glittering with rhinestones.

And they're almost always looking right at us, eye to eye, demanding to know if we are worth a glance or acknowledgement.

Mickelene Thomas is one of the most important artists working today.

Her paintings, photographs, films, and installations can be found in the permanent

collections of museums all over the world.

She joins me today to talk about her powerful art and her extraordinary career.

McCleine Thomas, welcome to Design Matters.

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