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Design Matters with Debbie Millman

Best of Design Matters: Lucy Sante

Design Matters with Debbie Millman

Design Matters Media

Arts, Design

4.61.3K Ratings

🗓️ 14 April 2025

⏱️ 67 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Renowned writer, cultural critic, and scholar of the demimonde Lucy Sante joins to discuss her career and a new memoir, “I Heard Her Call My Name,” reflecting on her transition and self-actualization in her sixties.

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Transcript

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0:00.0

This episode of Design Matters originally dropped in March of 2024.

0:06.1

For more than 55 years, I lived in a state of denial that kept my gender quandary suspended as a pickled in a chore.

0:14.5

I passed through periods of indulgence when I would give in endangering.

0:18.9

I had a range of stock fantasies that I rotated and embroidered upon.

0:23.9

Cast as a girl to school play, then persuaded to go out on the town in costume,

0:29.3

hired as an assistant by a wealthy society woman who amuses herself by dressing me up as a girl.

0:35.8

New roommate assigned to me in college has been dressing

0:38.8

as a girl for years and as a full wardrobe. But they were transvestite fantasies, to my thinking,

0:45.7

ultimately sterile. Then I would have periods of repudiation, when I would banish any such

0:52.1

thoughts and diagnose my situation as a fetish and unhealthy ideation.

0:56.7

A neurosis that I imagine might be cured by a good relationship with a strong woman who would fully bring out the man in me.

1:04.7

In both of these states, I could buy assorted gender questions and fixations scattered around different regions of my consciousness,

1:12.3

refusing to accord them coherence.

1:15.5

Thoughts about appearance went over here.

1:17.8

My various failures to fulfill a male role went over there.

1:21.7

The more existential questions were thrown on a shelf.

1:28.1

From the TED Audio Collective, this is Design Matters with Debbie Milman.

1:35.4

For 19 years, Debbie Milman has been talking with designers and other creative people about what they do,

1:40.7

how they got to be who they are, and what they're thinking about and working on.

1:44.8

On this episode, Lucy's Sont talks about changing genders late in life.

1:49.8

I knew it was real.

1:51.2

I mean, the minute my egg cracked, so to speak,

...

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