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The Good Fight

Ben Rhodes on Where American Foreign Policy Went Wrong

The Good Fight

Yascha Mounk

News

4.6907 Ratings

🗓️ 10 December 2022

⏱️ 63 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Ben Rhodes is a writer and the former Deputy National Security Advisor under President Barack Obama. His latest book is After the Fall: The Rise of Authoritarianism in the World We've Made. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Ben Rhodes discuss the record of Barack Obama’s foreign policy; what America should do about the Middle East, Russia, and China; and how (not) to advance democratic values around the world. This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John Taylor Williams, and Brendan Ruberry Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

I think this debate became very binary and it was like you could call for

0:05.2

intervention in Syria and simultaneously grant yourself a moral high ground but

0:09.9

also avoid learning the lessons of what had happened.

0:13.1

I mean, when people would say to me,

0:14.4

you guys over learned the lessons of Iraq,

0:16.4

it just happened.

0:17.6

Like, sometimes you should learn lessons,

0:19.1

you know, and it just happened,

0:21.1

and it just happened in the neighboring country with a kind of mirror image sectarian divide and we had 150,000 troops in that country at the peak of the war and we still couldn't stop people from killing each other.

0:31.0

Why we were going to be able to stop people in Syria from killing each other with cruise missiles,

0:36.0

that was the position that I found frustrating.

0:38.7

And now the good fight with Yasha Monk.

0:54.0

Last week I was in Israel for a very brief trip to give an academic lecture. Now I should preface this by saying that I don't follow Israeli politics

0:58.0

nearly as closely as I should.

1:02.0

And while my instinct is of course to be very skeptical of

1:06.2

Benjamin Netanyahu and his governments I sort of assumed that the new government that he was putting together would largely be more of the bad same.

1:21.0

Now I was worried about the fact that Netanyahu was about to enter into a coalition with far-right extremist partners like Ben Gvier,

1:31.0

but that effectively we should expect a continuation of the kind of governance that Israel saw in the

1:39.3

many previous terms in which Netanyahu was Prime Minister. I was struck getting to his role, just how worried,

1:49.3

quite moderate, with me establishment people in the country are about this incoming government.

1:58.0

Netanyahu announced that he would try to expand the national broadcaster is the Israeli equivalent of the BBC.

2:08.0

He is keen to pass a law which allows the Knesset, the country's parliament, to overrule any decision

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