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Hi, I was really lucky to talk to Ben McIntyre, who is one of my favorite authors writing today.

He writes these unbelievable nonfiction accounts, mostly of World War II spycraft.

Check out Operation Mincemeat, the true spy story that changed the course of World War II.

Check out Agent Zigzag, the true wartime story of Eddie Chapman, lover, betrayer, hero spy.

These are, I think, two of his most accessible and really most fun books, but he's written almost a dozen books at this point about World War II Spycraft.

And they're so readable.

He creates these unbelievable stories based on access to documents that were not before public and firsthand accounts in many times. And we talk about all of

this on the podcast in this interview. It was really a treat to get to talk to Ben McIntyre.

Before we get to that, hello, Madeline Miller. Thanks for talking to me.

Thank you so much for having me. Madeline, you are the author of several books,

including most recently a book called Circe. Can you tell folks a little bit what that book is about?

Sure. So it is sort of a reconstruction and a retelling of the myths around the character of

...