In Northern Ireland, from the late 70s to the early 90s, the IRA killed over 40 alleged informers.

But the man who often found, tortured and sometimes killed these people on behalf of the IRA

was himself an informer, a secret British army agent with the codename Stakeknife.

Who gets to play God? And why me? Why my family? When lies are still being told to this day,

who do you believe? I wouldn't even know where to start and I'm with the IRA.

Steakknife. Listen first on BBC Sounds.

Today we're chatting to American novelist Ben Lerner about his latest novel, discussing the rise of

auto fiction and asking the King of Crime, Ian Rankin, why he's chosen to republish a lost novel

after 30 years out of print. Ben Lerner's latest novel, The Topeka School, can be seen as the

final instalment in a trilogy. His previous two, leaving the Atotcha Station and 1004,

featured a male protagonist who bore more than a passing resemblance to Lerner himself.

The Topeka School is no exception. Lerner, just like his protagonist, Adam, is the child of eminent

therapists who becomes a champion school debater. Adam's teenage experiences

of speechifying, sexual awakening and outbursts of adolescent violence are interspersed with

those of his parents. Lerner takes us back and forth from the 1990s to a present-day America

grappling with toxic masculinity and the corruption of political discourse.

Although the starting point is personal,

the Topeka School is an expansive, ambitious work.

And when Ben Lerner came into the Open Book Studio last week,

I asked him, as a former debating champion,

how he would sum up this novel in a debate.

I think the book is an argument that... former debating champion, how he would sum up this novel in a debate.

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