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Hello and welcome to Behind the News. My name is Doug Henrywood, the ISO 9000 standard two guests today.

Wanda Bertram, the prison policy initiative, will talk about some less appreciated brutality

to the American carceral state and economist Francisco Perez will talk about the flaws

of mainstream economics and a popular education curriculum that counters them.

Most of us are familiar with the grim measurements of the American carceral state, most notably

the 2 million people in prison, a number that relative to population has few rivals in

the world. Even the state with the lowest incarceration rate, Massachusetts, jails five

times to share of its population as Norway in more than twice as many as France. The states

with the highest rates, Louisiana and Oklahoma, in prison 20 times to share their population

as Norway 10 times as many as France. But those aren't the only dimensions of our correctional

nightmare. There are also parole, probation, and civil commitment. Here with Morris Wanda

Bertram, the prison policy initiative, they've recently done reports on these topics if

you're interested in learning more. Here's Wanda Bertram. We're going to talk about a couple

of forms of the correctional control beyond the usual prison and jail model. The American

carceral state has so many varieties of control. It's quite impressive. First, community supervision,

which is a general term for probation or parole. Could you define these terms and just say

something about how extensive they are? Yes, yes. Like you're saying, there's so many

varieties to criminal punishment in the US that it takes a couple of reports to touch

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