Behind Breaking2: Dr. Brad Wilkins PhD on Human Limits, Eliud Kipchoge’s Mindset, and the Science of the Impossible + What YOU Can Learn From It All

THE RUNNING EFFECT PODCAST

Dominic Schlueter

Running, Sports

4.8 • 686 Ratings

🗓️ 10 May 2025

⏱️ 60 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

What does it take to break one of the most iconic barriers in sports history?

Brad Wilkins, lead scientist on Nike’s Breaking2 project, joins the show to pull back the curtain on the science, strategy, and soul behind chasing the sub-two-hour marathon.

Dr. Wilkins currently serves as an Assistant Professor in the Department of Human Physiology at the University of Oregon. He is the Director of the Oregon Performance Research Laboratory (OPRL); his research focuses on the physiological limits of human performance.

Dr. Wilkins explores thermoregulation, neural control of the cardiovascular system, the impact of product interventions on performance outcomes–just to name a few. The work he has done in this field has led to over 40 published manuscripts and patents.

Dr. Wilkins received his Ph.D. from the University of Oregon and has also worked at the Mayo Clinic. He has been an accomplished scientist at Nike for 10 years now, and led the scientific team for the Breaking2 project, where he was instrumental in coordinating the various scientific disciplines involved in the project. (Eliud Kipchoge, Lelisa Desisa, and Zersenay Tadese attempted to break two hours in the marathon and narrowly missed the mark, with Kipchoge running a 2:00:25.)

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Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0	I kind of stopped the conversation and said,
0:03.0	if 10 years down the road, this will have been done.
0:06.0	We know now we have the science, we have the math,
0:09.0	and we've been working on that science and math for some time.
0:13.0	We know now that this is physiologically possible,
0:17.0	or we hypothesize that it's physiologically possible,
0:19.0	and all it's going to take is somebody,
0:22.1	some organization, some person, some company to put in the resources to really go after it and just
0:31.6	with blinders on go after this problem.
0:37.4	That was Dr. Brad Wilkins today on the Running Effect podcast. Today's conversation go after this problem.
0:40.8	That was Dr. Brad Wilkins today on the Running Effect podcast.
0:45.0	Today's conversation is a deep dive into the world of sports science.
0:49.3	Dr. Brad Wilkins is a doctor at the University of Oregon. He currently serves as an assistant professor in the Department of Human Physiology at the University of Oregon.
0:55.0	He is the director of the Oregon Performance Research Laboratory, and his research focuses on the
1:00.3	physiological limits of human performance. Dr. Wilkins had a large hand in the Breaking Two
1:06.2	Project years ago that Niki put on as three athletes, including Ilya Tchipchogi, tried to break the two-minute
1:11.9	marathon barrier for the first time. That is a lot of our conversation today, what it was like to be
1:16.2	a part of that project, behind the scenes of it, testing in the lab. And we also dive into,
1:21.2	particularly at the end of this conversation, some things that you guys can do today from a testing
1:27.1	perspective without going into a lab
1:29.3	that will ultimately help improve your running and make you faster. We also touch in in the middle
1:34.7	portion, Dr. Wilkins' story, how he got into his profession and how he views his work,
	...

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