Now, Ilan Pape, the celebrated Israeli historian, has been long, one of the most important

voices that we have when it comes to talking about Israel and Palestine. And since the current

genocide began, of course, his voice has become even more important than ever. And it's such an

honour to be able to speak to you.

Belatedly, I should have done this a long time ago.

So I'm glad we're finally communicating on video,

and I know my audience be delighted.

Great to speak to you. How you did?

I'm fine. Thank you.

Thank you so much for having me.

Yes, we already planned that long time ago.

I'm glad it unfolded eventually.

It's finally happened.

So look, let's just actually begin.

You know, we're coming to the end now of 2024.

And already, I remember thinking back to the end of 2023

and thinking about the horror being unleashed against the people of Gaza.

And I have to say, if I knew, maybe I wouldn't be shocks, but knew a year later that we'd be discussing still,

the apparently limitless amount of depravity being unleashed against the people of Gaza,

I think I'd been pretty chilled by that, to be honest.

And here we are. What have you, I want to ask you as, you know, this, you're a historian of

Israel and Palestine. And, you know, historical context is always on your mind. What have you learned

...