Welcome to Think Biblically, Conversations on Faith and Culture, a podcast from Talbot School of Theology here at Biola University.

I'm your host Scott Ray, Dean of Faculty, and Professor of Christian Ethics.

And I'm your co-host Sean Macal, Professor of Christian Ethics.

And I'm your co-host Sean Macau, Professor of Christian Apologetics.

We're here for part two of our conversation with Dr. Brian Fickeert.

Previously we talked to him about the of the integration of Christian faith and his

discipline of economics in our previous conversation. This is part two of this is

about his terrific book entitled Becoming Whole, Why the Opposite of Poverty Isn't the American Dream.

A very provocative subtitle that I want to get into.

But Brian Figured is Professor of Economics and Community Development and founder and president of the Chalmers Center for Economic Development at Covenant College in Tennessee.

He is, you may be familiar with Brian from his best-selling well-known book called

When Helping Hurts, How to Alleviate Poverty Without Hurting the Poor.

And I know I've got my own, you know, my own faculty here who do youth ministry and do short-term

missions and they said that book totally turned their their whole view of

short-term missions upside down. So Brian, thanks so much for being with us for part two of this conversation on a very provocative book and just great stuff.

It's great to be with you again today. Thank you so much. So let's get right into this. The subtitle for your book is what I really got my attention. Why the opposite of poverty isn't the American dream.

First of all, what do you mean by the American dream and why isn't that the opposite of poverty?

Well, certainly America is a land of opportunity, it's been a beacon of hope for people all over the world and I don't want to downplay any of that. I love America. I love being an American. So we're not trying to trash America by any stretch of the imagination, but there is a particular story in America that kind of focuses on the idea that the good life is sort of this rugged individualism and the

pursuit of personal peace and prosperity is as Francis Schaefer called it and

so that kind of this rugged individualistic pursuit of materialism

that we think is actually really damaging and it's part of the American story

unfortunately it's it's emerging in many ways as kind of

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