Becoming a Not-So-Secretly Candid Leader with Chloé van Bergen 7 | 24

Radical Candor: Communication at Work

Radical Candor

Business, Management, Careers

4.7 • 729 Ratings

🗓️ 11 June 2025

⏱️ 45 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Fun fact: this episode exists thanks to a few pints and a little Radical Candor in the wild. Our audio engineer Nick met today’s guest, Chloé van Bergen, VP of Operations at Secretly Group, at his brother’s stag do. One loud London pub and an honest conversation later—we knew we had to get her on the show. Join Kim and Amy for a candid conversation with Chloé about what it really takes to lead change inside a legacy-driven music company. She gets real about navigating unionization, confronting indifference, and learning—sometimes the hard way—that being “nice” isn’t the same as being kind. From UK-style politeness to Dutch directness, Chloé shares what worked (and what didn’t) when rolling out Radical Candor across continents. Spoiler: no sugarcoating here — just straight up kind and clear. Get all of the show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠RadicalCandor.com/podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Episode Links: Transcript⁠⁠ Chloé van Bergen | LinkedIn Nick Carissimi Secretly Group Secretly Canadian | Info Granny Alice Avoid The Feedback Sandwich | Radical Candor Podcast 5 | 15 Toxic Positivity | Radical Candor Podcast 5 | 27 Navigating Radical Candor and Cultural Differences How To Navigate Feedback Conversations On Diverse Teams | Radical Candor Unreasonable Hospitality: The Remarkable Power of Giving People More Than They Expect | Will Guidara Scaling People: Tactics for Management and Company Building | Claire Hughes Johnson Pivot: Eight Principles for Transforming your Business in a Time of Disruption | Will Page Secretly Group: Workers at Indie-Music Company Begin Efforts to Unionize | Rolling Stone Secretly Group Union Earns Contract In Major Milestone for Indie Music Organizing | Rolling Stone Connect: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠⁠ Chapters: (00:00:00) Introduction Kim and Amy introduce Chloé van Bergen, VP of Operations at Secretly Group. (00:01:04) From Stag Do to Podcast Guest How a chance meeting at a UK pub led to Chloé joining the show. (00:05:25) What Is Secretly Group? The structure, history, and collaborative ethos of Secretly Group. (00:09:05) Discovering Radical Candor Being introduced to Radical Candor and the mindset shift it inspired. (00:10:42) Struggling with Direct Feedback Using Radical Candor to move past the fear of being too blunt. (00:12:43) Giving Feedback Across Borders Navigating cultural differences in feedback styles across countries. (00:17:25) Practicing Vulnerability Through Action Building confidence by starting to speak up, one moment at a time. (00:20:07) Pandemic Leadership & Operational Overhaul Navigating starting during COVID and legacy infrastructures. (00:25:13) Rockstar vs. Superstar: Rethinking Growth Learning not everyone wants to climb—some excel where they are. (00:29:50) Unionization During COVID How a union announcement led to a company-wide listening reset. (00:34:57) Adapting to AI & Industry Shifts Staying open by staying honest—even without having all the answers. (00:36:28) Kind ≠ Nice: Facing Hard Truths How kindness isn’t niceness—and can slow down change. (00:39:33) Chloé’s Radical Candor Tip Having the courage to say the thing, even if it feels uncomfortable. (00:42:46) Conclusion Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Got a business problem? There's a TED Talk for that. Stay updated on everything business, on TED Business, a podcast hosted by Columbia Business School Professor Modupe Akanola. Every week she'll introduce you to leaders with unique insights on work, answering questions like, how do four-day work weeks work? Do Will a Machine ever take my job?
0:25.0	Get some surprising answers on TED Business wherever you listen to podcasts.
0:28.1	Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker.
0:31.2	I host a podcast called A Slight Change of Plans that combines behavioral science and storytelling to help us navigate the big changes in our lives.
0:36.7	I get so choked up because I feel like your show and the conversations are what the world needs,
0:44.5	encouraging, empowering counter programming that acts like a lighthouse when the world feels dark.
0:52.3	Listen to a slight change of plans wherever you get your
0:55.0	podcasts. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Radical Canter podcast. I'm Kim Scott. I'm Amy Sandler,
1:05.9	and today we are excited to chat with someone that our audio engineer, Nick Carysmi, met out in the wild.
1:14.5	This is Chloe von Bergen, Vice President of Operations at Secretly Group, which is a leading, independently owned music company.
1:24.0	Chloe has more than 15 years experience in the creative industry sector, fluent in
1:29.2	five languages. Chloe is here today to discuss her experiences introducing radical candor at what could
1:37.9	be described as a complex legacy driven company. You can flesh that out further for us, Chloe.
1:43.4	So you've had to navigate unionization,
1:46.8	address cultural barriers. And Chloe's going to share what we believe is a really grounded look
1:53.0	at leadership, communication, and driving change at scale. So welcome, Chloe. Thank you for having me. Thrill that you're here. I would love to hear
2:03.6	the story about how you and Nick, I think you were at a wedding, how you came to be talking about
2:10.7	radical candor at a wedding. I guess I will jump in. Thank you guys for having me on. I don't normally
2:16.8	join. So you're always here, just not always. I'm always here. I'm lur in. Thank you guys for having me on. I don't normally join.
2:19.3	So you're always here.
2:20.4	Just not always.
2:21.1	I'm lurking.
	...

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