I'm Claire Fallon and I'm Emma Gray and this is Love to See It, an obsessively detailed

recap podcast about the bachelor and other pop culture that makes us laugh, cry and curse

the patriarchy. We can't live with these shows and we can't live without them, but we can

break down every juicy moment and unpack all the weird messages these shows send us about

love, sex and dating.

And welcome to Love to See It, a podcast where there are really two, no, actually three

levels of understanding and none of those levels involves apologizing for being an asshole

to people on TV at any point. It's just really important to explore and understand

all of the levels of each situation and hopefully to take long enough understanding them

that the apology part simply never arrives. Right. At which point we change the subject.

So we're here to discuss the bachelor at mental all for Michelle's season of the bachelor

at with the author, defector media co-owner and co-host of the new podcast, normal gossip,

Kelsey McKinney. Kelsey, thank you for joining us. Thank you both so much for having me.

I'm psyched to be here. We are excited and we are excited to really dive in to the

mental all special, which I will say oddly in some ways was less hard to watch than

seasons before it if you can believe it was it was more restful. There were more, there

were more simply scenes involving dairy ambassadors overseeing people's buttersculpchers and

less men yelling at each other. Yeah, just fewer coffeines of violent male rage layered

on top of each other and for that I'm grateful. It was very peaceful. I'm going to start

watching it to fall asleep every night. Oh, it's beautiful. So and I should say up

tough, if I sound a little croaky, I apologize. I have a cold and apparently you can still

get illnesses that aren't COVID. Especially if you have a child in daycare, like basically

...