From the New York Times, this is the interview. I'm David Marcasey.

Back in 2018, a big climate report came out that really shook me.

It painted a pretty dire picture of where we're heading, a climate that will likely warm by at least 1.5 degrees

Celsius by 2040, and it was a grim warning of what things will look like

if we don't reverse course.

It now seems probable that we're going to blow past

those climate targets.

And that's led to a lot of climate fear, pessimism, and activism rooted in anger.

But recently there's been a growing counter response to those darker feelings,

including from some experts who have a clear view on what's coming.

And that response is a cautious optimism.

Though she doesn't go so far as to call herself hopeful, Dr Iana Elizabeth Johnson

is one of those experts trying to change the mood on climate.

She's a marine biologist, the co-founder of a think tank focused on the future of coastal cities,

and she's also worked on climate policy, advising lawmakers and working with the EPA on climate solutions.

And she's got a new book that's due out this summer called What If We Get It Right, Visions of Climate

Futures.

That question, what if we get it right on climate, is one I think about a lot.

I'm skeptical, but I wish I weren't.

That's why I spoke with Johnson, to see if she can help me think and feel differently.

Here's our conversation.

So I feel like over the last decade or so the framing and discussion about the climate crisis,

...