Welcome to the Colette Podcast. My name is Claire Lehman and I am editor and chief of Colette.

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Hi, my name's Toby Young and I'm one of Quilets London-based editors.

Today I'm talking to Joel K Kotkin. He is the presidential fellow in Urban Futures at Chapman University and executive director of the Urban Reform Institute.

His new book, The Coming of Neofudalism, is now out from encounter.

And he is a regular contributor to Quolette and has just written a piece about the pandemic and the

pandemonium that has followed the easing of lockdown restrictions at least in some American states. Joel thank you very much

for talking to Colette.

That's my pleasure. So first of all do you want to talk a little bit about what you think the lasting consequences of the pandemic are likely to be before we go on to talk about the civil

unrest.

Well I think you know the two as as as cool actually I thought was a very clever title you know I think that the

two things are related but you know what what these events have been are will be are accelerating

trends that were already there we already were seeing in the last five years

or so a growing movement here in the United States for sure and to some

extent in other countries of people essentially beginning to move out of the urban core areas and move to suburbs and in the United States in particular smaller cities or similar things have been seen in some other

parts of the world but basically the urban centers who had had a tremendous

revival certainly in certain parts of those centers I think has I

...