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Thank you for daring to listen.

Today we have a super great episode for you with Cassie Kirby, and she's actually a licensed professional clinical counselor out of Minnesota.

And she's going to be talking to us a little bit about spiritual abuse, influence, shame, guilt, all of that stuff that we know is wrapped up within high

control, abusive, spiritually abusive environments today. So welcome to the Bodies Behind the Bus

podcast, Cassie. Thank you so much for having me. We're so excited to have you. When we were

starting to record and we're asking how she wants to be introduced, we were like, okay, tell us what these letters mean.

And she was explaining that they can mean different things depending on the state.

So we were decided, why don't you explain that to the listeners a little bit so we all can understand this?

Yes. So I'm going to make this as short as possible.

The fact is that there are a number of fields that you can be licensed and do counseling in.

You have psychology, which is my field.

You have the marriage and family therapists and you have the social workers.

On top of that, every state pretty much has like different letters after each name. So some states, it's just licensed

...