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The Documentary Podcast

Assignment: Poland's ghosts, Ukraine's heroes

The Documentary Podcast

BBC

Documentary, Society & Culture

4.32.7K Ratings

🗓️ 24 December 2024

⏱️ 31 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Ukraine and Poland are neighbours and close allies in today’s conflict with Russia. But the ghosts of victims of an earlier war have returned to divide them. Tens of thousands of Poles were murdered by Ukrainians in Volhynia, in what's now western Ukraine, in 1943. Most of the victims still lie in unmarked graves, and Ukraine has only just lifted a ban on exhuming the bodies.

That followed heavy diplomatic pressure by Poland, about to take over the presidency of the European Union. It threatened to block moves towards Ukrainian integration with the EU unless the ban were lifted.

But Poland’s demand has stirred a controversy inside Ukraine about one of the darkest periods of its history. Ukrainian nationalists who were involved in the massacre - and their leader Stepan Bandera - are regarded by many Ukrainians as heroes.

Reporter Tim Whewell travels through Poland and western Ukraine to try to find out what really happened in 1943, and ask whether Poland and Ukraine can ever lay a fiercely-contested history to rest. And can the record of Ukraine's Second World War nationalists be openly discussed without giving a propaganda victory to Russia, which has tried to use the subject to vilify Ukraine?

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Well, yes, I do remember.

0:05.9

Next to our house, there was this ditch,

0:09.3

and the water in it flowed very fast.

0:14.1

And daddy used to put up pinwheels in it.

0:19.1

They span around and around, and there were peat bogs with ponds that were so clear.

0:34.6

Once there was a place poleses called Vowling.

0:40.6

It had wide, wide skies.

0:43.4

The fields yellow with sunflowers in summer.

0:46.4

The roadside pop was heavy with mistletoe.

0:52.2

There were a great lot of people. And so many birds.

0:55.2

And so many birds.

0:58.4

Black storks, white stalks, herons.

1:03.9

It also had secrets, dark ones.

1:07.2

In my family, it was always a taboo subject.

1:11.4

What I know, it was only the things that I heard from the slightly open doors when I was a child.

1:20.2

Stories that are definitely not for children.

1:25.3

I saw them setting fire to the house and children jumping out of the windows and being thrown back in again and then running.

1:36.8

I don't remember what happened next. I was in a state of shock. I just remember the screams, the fear and running, running with everyone else.

1:48.0

Boguswava Kandjewska is 91. She's remembering the year 1943 when she was 10,

1:54.5

the same horrors that Karolina Romanovska, granddaughter of other survivors, heard about

2:00.5

years later through those half-open doors.

2:03.7

I remember one auntie saying it was a night someone knocked to the door and shout,

...

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