This is Free Thought Radio with co-host Stan Barker and Annie Laurie Gaylor, Irreverent Views, News, Music, and Interviews.

Imagine there's no heaven.

It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky. Happy September.

This is Free Thought Radio, and I'm Annie Laurie Gaylor.

And I'm Dan Barker, co-host of Free Thought Radio.

Annie Laurie and I are co-presidents of the Freedom from Religion Foundation,

and this is the September 7th, 2023 episode of Free Thought Radio.

Grant Blaschka, with Audio for the Arts is engineering today's show in the Stephen

Ool-friendly atheist studio right here in Freethought Hall, which is the National Office of the Freedom from Religion Foundation in Madison, Wisconsin.

And Free Thought Radio is the weekly production of the Freedom from Religion Foundation in Madison, Wisconsin. And Free Thought Radio is the weekly production of the Freedom from Religion Foundation and for listeners who are not acquainted with FFRF.

Today we're the largest free thought association in North America with more than 40,000 members,

mainly free thinkers, atheists, agn, skeptics, and other people for whom they

really have no religious preference, or they reject religion. And our purposes are to educate you,

the public, about the views of non-believers, and probably more importantly, to keep religion out of government,

to defend the Wall of Separation that the First Amendment of the Constitution, our secular

Constitution, supposedly built.

And it's an uphill battle, and we would love to have your help and support.

You can go to FFRF.org to join us or to ask for more information.

Today, we're going to talk about evangelicalism and racism. Our guest in the second half of the show

will be R. Scott Okamoto. He's the author of the new book, Asian American Apostate,

Losing Religion and Finding Myself at an Evangelical University.

Scott was an English professor at an evangelical university for more than a decade,

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