I stopped watching the news when Trump got elected last November.

Just being angry doesn't change anything.

The only thing that most people do that is in any way relevant a lot of the time is just to vote.

There's a distortion of value in our society.

Essentially it's just like panacea for all social ills as if we stop small boats coming across the English Channel.

That's simply not true.

Art is a remedy, and people need to understand that.

Hello and welcome to Ways to Change the World.

I'm Christian Guri Murthy, and this is the podcast in which we talk to extraordinary people

about the big ideas and their lives and the events that have helped shape them. My guest this week

is the artist David Shrigley. Now David is famous for his quick-witted drawings with clever words

and his exercises or installations as well he famously recently

pult thousands of used copies of the Da Vinci Code and turned them into new copies of

1984 and his latest work here in London is piles of old rope, which are on sale for a million pounds.

David Trigley, welcome.

Let's start by talking about rope.

I mean, this looks like something out of 2001, Space Odyssey almost.

Where did the idea come from?

Old rope, yeah. So we've got 10 tonnes of old rope, four piles like this. I guess the starting point was the aphorism money for old rope.

And this is a commercial gallery in the middle of Mayfair,

who have represented me for 30 years pretty much.

So it's kind of how I make a living.

...