This is How to Be a Better Human. I'm your host, Chris Duffy.

Today's guest, Yo-Wei Shah, is one of the most respected writers, producers, and hosts in audio.

I feel really confident saying that. But all of her talents and abilities and accomplishments

and accolades, all of that couldn't help her from losing her job at NPR's Invisibilia.

And here's a clip of Yo-Wei talking about how it felt to lose that gig.

I've been with Invisibilia for seven years.

Worked my way up from producer who did admin to reporter producer to senior reporter producer to co-host.

I felt really lucky to get paid to do the producer, to co-host.

I felt really lucky to get paid to do the thing I loved,

making stories about ideas and emotions,

stories that I hope helped our listeners understand how to navigate the world.

I love my team. I love my job.

So I knew that getting laid off was going to hurt. But I was not prepared for how much it hurt and how long the hurt lasted. I was not prepared for how the layoff turned me into someone I didn't recognize. I mean, objectively, I knew I had it about as good as it gets. I got severance.

I had savings.

I didn't have kids.

I had a partner.

I had parents I could rely on if things got really bad.

And I knew the layoff wasn't about me.

NPR had made a strategic shift, and shows like mine weren't part of the new strategy.

They specifically told me it was a business

decision and had nothing to do with my performance. So why did I keep cycling through old

mistakes, wondering what I could have done differently? Why did it feel like NPR was rejecting

...