Go ahead, give yourself permission to take a break.

Go have fun together.

Then get back into the business of life and the busyness, the challenges and demands.

That's fine too.

But that's not all there is. And so my dad taught me the wisdom and demands, that's fine too. But that's not all there is.

And so my dad taught me the wisdom and restoring power,

the relationally restoring power of enjoying God's good creation.

Ray Ortland is the president of Renewal Ministries,

the pastor to pastors at Emmanuel Church in Nashville, Tennessee,

and a canon theologian with the Anglican Church in North America.

He's also the author of many different books, including Eat, Drink, and Be Mary,

a gospel call to bold enjoyment from Crossway.

Ray, thank you so much for joining me again on the Crossway podcast.

Thank you, Matt, for allowing me to, and I feel privileged to be with every one of our listeners right now.

So, Ray, I've been excited to have this conversation with you about this new book that you've written.

It's called Eat, Drink, and Be Mary.

And I would venture to say, I don't know if you would agree with this or how you would

articulate this, but it seems to me that the book is somewhat provocative in that you're

trying to help Christians to understand something that might be a little

counterintuitive to many of us, those of us who have grown up in the church or even have

come from maybe an unchurched background, but became saved and felt like we had to turn away

from a lot of the things that were part of our life before that,

...