Good morning. It's three minutes after 10. You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC, where we will return to the vexed question of refugees. A little later in the program today. I think we've started with it for two days running. The situation, I think it's fair to say, it's still pretty ugly from the British perspective. The only matter for debate is whether or not it's deliberate or a consequence of

epic incompetence in the home office. But I thought we'd begin instead. I'd listen to two astonishing

interviews with two politicians this morning, one from Ukraine and one from Russia. The Ukrainian one

inevitably had already been preempted, I've just been told, by my LBC colleague and the

Channel 4 news presenter Matt Frye. He interviewed a different Ukrainian MP a few days ago, and she also

uttered the phrase or words to the effect that World War III has already begun. But I heard

for the first time those words this morning, and I know Fiona Hill, an advisor, I think, to three Republican administrations, including Donald Trump's and a recent guest on my full disclosure podcast.

I would heartily recommend that you listen to that episode. A fascinating woman. A journey from a Durham coal miner's daughter to the most hyphen looting corridors of power on the planet is an astonishing tale.

Even without the context of the current crisis, war in Ukraine. Why did you say war in that weird

voice, James? Answer, because I also heard a Russian MP being interviewed who persisted in denying

that a war was actually being waged. They continue to call it a special

military operation, and such as the strangleholder Vladimir Putin exercises over the flow of

information in Russia that many people living there continue to believe him. I think still the most

telling tale I've heard since this began, and by that, I don't mean the most important or the most

significant or even the most powerful. Just the most telling is probably the young woman whose

experience was far from unique, who was struggling to persuade her own family back in Russia

that she was actually under attack in Ukraine.

It's an overused word, but I think occasionally it works.

That is quite Orwellian, you know, freedom is slavery, war is peace, ignorance is strength.

Struggling, imagine phoning your mum.

Imagine if you were sitting at home now with the kids, right?

I apologies if you haven't got kids.

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