Hey y'all, Sam Sanders here. Thank you so much for checking out my show with KCRW. This week,

we're bringing you a very special episode. I recently joined my friend Christiana Mbacue Medina on her

podcast, Pop Syllabus. Christiana hit me up to unpack one of her favorite topics and turns out one of mine too.

She has a theory that as a culture, all people who are famous actually fit into one of three categories, one of three boxes.

They're either stars, celebrities, or famous people.

Some can be both, but very few are all three. It's a really fun game to see which stars fit where.

Where do icons like Beyonce fit? Where do rising stars like Sabrina Carpenter or Chapel Rhone fit? Are they stars,

celebrities, famous people, two, or all three? Christina and I get into all of that. But first,

we chat about another one of her favorite topics and one of mine, too, 90s divas and why there are

seemingly no divas in pop culture today.

Okay, this chat was so much fun.

I probably said a few things that might get me in trouble,

but that means a good time was had.

Enjoy.

You are one of my favorite thinkers, journalists, hosts, a brilliant mind.

And a lot of people don't know this, a pop culture expert.

I'm trying.

I think in large part because, as you know, I've told you this, growing up very churchy,

pop culture was forbidden, which meant I saw it out even more.

I was the biggest student of it because I couldn't have it.

What were you seeking out?

Oh, my God.

...