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This is a global player original podcast. We're in a quandary. It feels like we're in Czech-Mate.

And I don't, it's hard to see a way out of it. Is Andy Burnham up for this?

You have to ask Andy Burnham. Have you spoken to him?

I have spoken to Andy Burnham, yeah. But you, yeah, I'm not sure if he wants to move to Norwich, but would you give up your seat then? So, question I've asked myself, and I'd have to obviously consult with my wife as well on family, but you know what? But, you know, if I'm going to sit here and say, you know, country before party, party for personal ambition, then yes, I have to say yes, don't I?

You give up your seat for Andy Burnham?

I would, yeah.

Well, okay.

We'll get him on the phone.

That is Clive Lewis, the Labour MP for Norwich, not Manchester, saying he would give up his seat for Andy Burnham so that Andy Burnham could run

for the Labour leadership. What is going on when backbench MPs feel emboldened to go on

television and openly call for a mutiny against their own leader? Is it now an open secret

that Kirstama isn't going to make it past May? Welcome to the

newsagents. The news agents. It's John. It's Emily. It's Lewis. And Clive Lewis is, I mean,

is he the typical Labour MP? Does he represent the beating heart of the backbench?

He's probably not. I mean, he's openly being critical of the leadership before and he will do so again.

He's on the left of the party. And he's on the left of the party. But it is sort of telling that, as you say, Emily, in the introduction, that people just think, yeah, I can go and do this now, I can say this now. And back in, when they brought down Thatcher, they talked about a stalking horse. I mean, it does look like those, it's all shaping up for a leadership contest, even though Kirstama himself, I keep hearing, doesn't think there's a problem and thinks that everything is fine.

You should explain a stalking horse, just because our younger views won't kind of go back to the Thatcher days.

Sir Anthony Mayer was put up as a sort of person, not because he could beat Margaret Thatcher,

but that he would open up a race.

And that would facilitate Michael Heseltine coming into the race to be

the real challenger to Margaret Thatcher and that eventually sort of did work.

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