Welcome to part two of our conversation with John Kashuba about shapeshifters.

Let's talk about some of the other things that you've come across in your book when it comes to shapeshifting.

You had mentioned skinwalkers earlier.

Can you talk about, let's introduce the audience to what a skinwalker is is, and then tell me what you found?

Right. So skinwalkers are basically a Native American sort of phenomena, and it seems to me

primarily in the southwest, like among the Utes and the Dene people, the Navajo people.

And the culture, the popular culture there is that a skinwalker is essentially a shaman, again, Native American shaman who has the ability, however he gets it, he has the ability to transform himself into an animal.

And it's generally a wolf or a coyote, something like that. The problem with the

shape shift with the Skinwalker is that he is a really, really awful person. And his whole role,

basically, is to kill. So frequently somebody would invoke a skinwalker in some way to wreak vengeance on

somebody or to get back at somebody. And once that's there, the skinwalker, this shaman will

transform and he'll go out and he'll kill people, you know, as asked, as requested.

But it's interesting because the Southwest peoples really don't like to talk about the Skinwalker at all because they have the sphere themselves, that if they talk about it too much

and, you know, sort of get the word out that it may turn on them, that they may find themselves

being a

victim of a skin walker.

But there was an interesting thing, though, that I came across, and there's a book by

George Knapp and another guy, and I forgot who the other author is, called Skinwalker Ranch.

And there's this, there's a location out west in Utah that was an old ranch, and there's this there's a location out west in Utah that it was an old

ranch and there's a lot of paranormal activity there of all kinds including

supposedly seeing the shape-shifting entities that appear to be like giant wolves like

wolves that are seven or eight feet tall and you you know, 400 pounds, big, big animals.

...