Are Roth Conversions Necessary? | Cody Garrett and Sean Mullaney | Ep 581

ChooseFI

Brad Barrett | Choose FI Media

Business, Careers, Investing

4.8 • 5K Ratings

🗓️ 12 January 2026

⏱️ 66 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Brad hosts Sean Mullaney and Cody Garrett to dive deep into the topic of taxable Roth conversions, including key distinctions between various Roth strategies. The discussion emphasizes the strategic nature of these conversions during retirement, common misconceptions, and the importance of prioritizing personal financial success over societal pressures. Listeners will gain practical insights into tax management and gain clarity on when and if to pursue Roth conversions in their financial plans.

Disclaimer:
Sean's discussions on the ChooseFI podcast and articles and messages published on ChooseFI.com are intended for general educational purposes and are not tax, legal, or investment advice for any individual. The ChooseFI podcast and its owners, employees, and agents do not endorse Sean Mullaney, Mullaney Financial & Tax, Inc., or their services.

Timestamps & Key Topics:

00:00:56 - Introduction to Guests
- Hosts introduce Sean Mullaney and Cody Garrett, authors of Tax Planning To and Through Early Retirement.
00:02:11 - Understanding Taxable Roth Conversions
- Definitions and purpose of taxable Roth conversions vs. backdoor Roths.
00:12:07 - Taxable Roth Conversions During Working Years
- Why taxable conversions are generally discouraged for those with a job.
- Discussion on 'income disruption years' as an exception.
00:15:13 - Strategies for Retirement Income
- Exploring income sources and tax brackets in retirement.
00:19:10 - Roth Conversion Decisions in Retirement
- Discussion on RMDs and managing taxable income effectively in retirement.
01:04:17 - Conclusion and Resources
- Recap of key insights and suggestions for further financial planning.

Key Insights:

Taxable Roth Conversions vs. Backdoor Roths
- Taxable conversions create taxable income and can be beneficial, while backdoor Roths are a mechanism to contribute when income limits apply.
Ideal Times for Conversions
- Typically not advisable during high-income years; consider during low-income years or life events causing income disruption.
Tax Burdens in Retirement
- Many retirees experience lower tax burdens than expected; RMDs are manageable for most.
Roth Conversions and Future Planning
- Primary beneficiaries are often oneself and heirs; focus on financial success rather than tax liabilities for future generations.
Avoiding Procrastination through Optimization
- Optimization can become procrastination; focus on higher impact decisions for financial health rather than getting lost in tax details.

Actionable Takeaways:

Evaluate Current Tax Bracket: Assess your taxable income before considering a Roth conversion (00:12:07).
Timing Is Key: Consider performing Roth conversions during lower income years (00:12:50).
Understand RMDs: Evaluate the necessity of Roth conversions in the context of required minimum distributions (00:22:28).
Consult Professionals: Consider professional guidance for personalized strategies aligned with your long-term financial goals (01:04:01).

Featured Quotes:

"Retirement accounts exist to ensure financial success in retirement." - Sean Mullaney (01:04:01)
"Roth conversions can enhance tax efficiency but are not required." - Cody Garrett (00:42:34)
"Don't let fear guide you in financial decisions." - Brad (01:05:17)

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hello and welcome to Trucify. Today on the show, we have Sean Malini and Cody Garrett, two of my all-time
0:05.4	favorite guests. And we're going to be talking all things, Roth conversions. So a lot of this is
0:11.6	thrown around. They're backdoor Ross, mega backdoor Ross, Roth conversion ladders. But what are they all?
0:17.0	And as these guys told me, there's a lot of interest in taxable Roth conversions, but are they really necessary?
0:24.1	And we're going to really try to talk through every aspect of this.
0:27.3	And you're going to leave here with a lot better understanding of all things Roth conversion.
0:32.1	And with that, welcome to choose that five.
0:46.0	Before we get started, I keep this podcast entirely ad-free for two reasons.
0:50.4	First, this is a Phi podcast and I don't want to promote products that I don't want you to buy in the first place.
0:51.7	And second, I really like the clean listening experience
0:54.6	of a show where you don't have to fast forward ads. To keep it ad free, all I ask of you as a listener
1:00.0	is the next time you open a travel rewards credit card, go to choosefi.com slash cards. And with that,
1:06.5	on to the show. Cody and Sean, so I neglected to say you guys are the authors of the incredible book,
1:15.9	Tax Planning, Two and Through Early Retirement.
1:18.3	And the book has been an immense success from what I've seen.
1:21.1	Huge congrats, guys.
1:22.2	Thank you, Brad.
1:23.1	I appreciate that.
1:24.0	Yeah, we've been excited.
1:25.2	Like, it's funny, nobody writes a book to make money,
1:44.3	you know, but we've been excited probably by the time this podcast comes out about 8,000 copies, which, you know, I think about, like, if we were to stack those books, like, how high would they go? Like, it's just really exciting. It's less about the number of books quantitatively, but just thinking, what's the long-term impact of just educating people about the fundamentals of tax planning?
1:48.9	Yeah. No, it's massive. And I mean, frankly, selling books is really, really difficult.
	...

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