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And thanks for listening. Welcome to the HBRIDIAcast from Harvard Business Review. I'm Audie Ignatius, editor-in-chief, and I'm in New York today with Sarah Green Carmichael.

It seems like we're seeing a lot more leaders crying these days, whether in politics or at the

office. So the question is, are we getting too emotional? To answer that question, we're

joined by Gotho Mukunda of Harvard Business School and Janpiero Petrile of Inseat.

Both men are faculty and their school's organizational behavior units and are frequent contributors

to HPR.

So with that I'll turn it over to Sarah.

So let's just dive in, get going, first question, go with them, let's start with you.

You have studied some pivotal leaders throughout history is this kind of

emotionalism that we're seeing from leaders really new or have we actually

seen this kind of thing before? So we certainly seen it before in some cases, right?

You, what you could think in the Prussian case

before the First World War, Bismarck,

was famous in dealing with Kaiser through by throwing temper tantrums

and promising that he would throw himself from a window

if he didn't sort of get his way with some policy or another.

I think what you're starting to see a little bit differently here is the extent to which that sort of emotionalism is

free in public in a way that it might not have been customarily but it's worth

...