Goody, humans. Welcome to Safe Space for Dangerous Ideas and are there any more dangerous

conversations than ones around First Nations, indigenous and racial issues, especially with a white

fella like myself. Dr. Anthony Dillon is an academic, a part Aboriginal academic who's also a commentator on Indigenous Affairs,

who's quite heterodox in his thinking.

He was previously at the ABC, the public broadcaster.

Now, he writes for the Australian and for news.com.

He has a lot of thoughts about the way that we perhaps fetishize and condescend to Indigenous Australians

and indeed First Nations people all over the world. This particular episode is brought to you

by the University of Technology, Sydney. It's part of a series that we're doing with them called

Permission to Think, where we talk about the ways that academia and real life intersect,

especially at the front lines of the culture war. And a big thanks to Professor Alan Davidson

for being our collaborator on this. He is the dean of the School of Social Sciences at the

University of Technology, Sydney. We get into a lot here. It's thorny's, it's, it's, it's thorny areas, but Anthony is always

a pleasure to talk to and provides a fascinating insight into a perspective from an Indigenous

Australian that you don't always hear. Please enjoy the one and only, Dr. Anthony Dillon.

Yeah, I'm so fascinated by so much of what you write.

Did you read it in the last 24 hours?

Of course, of course, of course.

Bits and pieces here and there over the course of years,

but then of course a lot of reading in the past 24 hours.

I mean, so my circle of friends and colleagues would mostly be on the progressive left

and would have an idea about indigenous affairs as being, you know, that white Australia

...