This is fresh air. I'm Terry Gross. President Donald Trump has said he would institute the

Insurrection Act in Minneapolis if the people he describes as professional agitators and

insurrectionists continue attacking the Patriots of ICE. There are now about 3,000 Department

of Homeland Security agents, which includes ICE and Customs and Border Patrol,

the CBP, in the Minneapolis-St. Paul region, to search for and deport immigrants here illegally.

What does this say about President Trump and his administration? How is this playing out on the courts?

What does it mean for the First and Fourth Amendment rights of Americans to peacefully protest

and express their opinions and for our democracy? I have two guests who have been looking at

these issues. Emmanuel Malillon is a professor at the University of Minnesota Law School. He lives

in the Twin Cities. He writes about the roles that police and other state security actors play

in producing social, political, and legal regimes of domination and subordination. He's a former

fellow at the Brennan Center for Justice, where he focused on white nationalist domestic

terrorism, hate crime policy, and police access to surveillance technology and military weapons.

Elizabeth Goitin is Senior Director of Liberty and National Security at the Brennan Center for

Justice. She is an expert on presidential emergency powers, government surveillance, and government

secrecy. She's testified before Senate and House Judiciary Committee several times.

We recorded our interview yesterday morning before it was confirmed that subpoenas were issued to

Minnesota Governor Tim Walsh, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry, the state's Attorney General Keith Ellison,

as well as the Mayor of St. Paul Paul and the Hennepin County Attorney.

The subpoenas are reportedly part of a Justice Department probe into whether state officials

were conspiring to impede federal immigration law enforcement operations.

Elizabeth Goitin, Emmanuel Malion, welcome to Fresh Air. I want to start with an overview, asking each of you to just like run through a list of some of the things that President Trump and his administration are doing that you find most confounding or legally out of bounds?

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