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More or Less

Are 72% of prison inmates in Switzerland foreign?

More or Less

BBC

Business, Mathematics, Science, News Commentary, News

4.63.5K Ratings

🗓️ 11 October 2025

⏱️ 10 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In a recent speech to the UN, US president Donald Trump set out some remarkable figures on the proportion of inmates in European prisons who were foreign nationals.

Citing statistics from the Council of Europe, he references Greece, Germany and Austria, as having rates around 50%.

“In Switzerland, beautiful Switzerland,” he said “72% of the people in prisons are from outside of Switzerland.” These numbers are correct, but why are the percentages so high – particularly in Switzerland?

Tim Harford speaks to Professor Marcelo Aebi, a criminologist from the University of Lausanne, who wrote the prisons report for the Council of Europe.

If you’ve seen a number in the news you think we should take a look at, let us know: [email protected]

Presenter: Tim Harford Producer: Tom Colls Sound mix: Rod Farquhar Editor: Richard Vadon

Transcript

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0:40.6

Hello and thanks for downloading the more or less podcast.

0:44.1

With a programme that looks at the numbers in the news and in life and in Swiss prisons, I'm Tim Harford.

0:52.2

Loyal listener George got in touch to ask us to look into some of the figures Donald Trump used.

0:57.7

In a recent speech at the UN, here's the section in question.

1:01.9

According to the Council of Europe in 2024, almost 50% of inmates in German prisons were foreign nationals or migrants. In Austria, the number was 53% of the

1:14.9

people in prisons were from places that weren't from where they are now. In Greece, the number was

1:22.2

54%. And in Switzerland, beautiful Switzerland, 72% of the people in prisons are from outside of Switzerland.

...

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