From Wondry, I'm Alice Levine.

And I'm Matt Ford.

And this is British Scandal.

What? What a series, Matt, what a character April Ashley is. What did you think?

Well, hugely impressive individual, kind of eccentric, entertaining, glamorous, formidable, vulnerable as well.

But I really enjoyed her resilience, a sharp wit, and of course, most of all, her singing.

You're welcome.

But it just feels so tragic.

All she really wanted to do was just live her life.

Yeah, I can't imagine how it must feel to have people subject you to tests and then decide that your sense of yourself is wrong.

And it still feels like such a pertinent story and experience today, because of course, in April

this year, the Supreme Court ruled that the legal definition of a woman should be based on

biological sex under Equality's law, bringing us right back to the point of April's divorce case.

And it's a conversation that's notoriously fraught, often toxic.

And it just makes you wonder how different life could have been for April

and whether the conversation might be different today if the judge had ruled differently.

Exactly. And our guest today will be able to give us some insight on exactly that.

Zoe Pladen is the Emeritus Professor of Medical Humanities at the University of London

and has acted as an advisor to the NHS, Home Office and Department of Education and Employment.

Zoe's a leading voice in civil liberties for gay, lesbian and transgender people,

a former co-chair of the Gay and Lesbian

Association of Doctors and Dentists, Glad, and co-founder of the Parliamentary Forum on Gender

...