Welcome to the Apple insider podcast. This is your host, Steven Robles, and joining me today,

we have a very special guest, David Heinemeyer Hansen. He's known as DHH on Twitter. He's the creator

of the Ruby on Rails framework, co-founder and CTO of Basecamp, and hey.com, and if that wasn't enough,

also a race car driver, apparently. David, thanks for joining me on the show.

Thanks for having me. You know, I thought we should get the most controversial question out of the way up front.

And so my question is, after having driven 24 hours at Le Mans, what did you think of the movie Ford V Ferrari?

I thought it was beautifully done, and actually much better than I feared it would be. Most movies about racing are not only boring, but bad.

And this one wasn't, even if it wasn't particularly realistic. It's one of those things, for example, how they zoom in on two racing drivers

who are coming up next to each other, and one of them then does this dramatic downshift.

That never, ever happens. It never has happened. It's just not how cars work.

If you're a race car driver, you're already driving in the gear you're supposed to be, and there's not this thing where you drive up next to each other.

But other than that, I thought it was pretty good.

Okay. I mean, having no information on that world personally, it was a fun movie to watch. And based on a true story,

it was pretty compelling. And so what made you get into that? Just, you want to go fast?

I had always liked racing games.

So I've long, I mean, since I was, I don't know, four years old or five years old, whenever I tried my first video games,

been into video games, and racing games was one of my favorite genres.

But I didn't get my driver's license until I was 25, and I thought I kind of had to make up for lost time.

So I got my driver's license at 25, sat in my first race car at 27, and thought, geez, this is good.

I want to do this some more. And it reminded me, frankly, a lot about programming, a lot about systems design.

Driving a race car is very much an optimization problem.

You're driving around in a circle. I mean, there are some corners, but you keep getting the results.

...